What else do you think will be censored?

Alcin · Jun 18, 2018 3:37 PM

A dev admitted the weapons the Gnorc Commandos have in Twilight Harbor were censored. With this in mind, what else do you think will be changed?

On my front, I expect Elora to not be bottomless anymore. Like wearing a skirt or kilt (maybe to link her with Fracture Hills as an immigrant or descended from immigrants).

raindrop717 · Jun 18, 2018 5:14 PM

I think there's a good chance they won't do that to Elora, because none of the adult dragons so far have had pants or kilts and they are standing bipedally too, showing off just as much as she would be. Though I could be proven wrong.

It's highly likely, however, that they will now censor the gnorcs that moon you in the Peace Keeper's World, which will be sad. If they do, I hope its just a blurred spot or something, so at least the spirit will remain the same. Also, I'm curious how they probably censored the guns in Dry Canyon. Purple goo REALLY doesn't fit there.

Last edited by raindrop717 (Jun 19, 2018 5:38 PM)

Aquila King · Jun 18, 2018 5:48 PM

I don't want to get political here, but I'm worried that the PC police on the far left might have a slight influence on this going into it. hmm

What if they censor Ripto slowly being consumed by the lava when you beat him? Or the gnorcs flashing their butts at you in Peace Keepers? Or the guy on the magic carpet in Scorch who steals the flags because his character might be perceived as slightly racist? (I've actually heard some people make that argument recently)

It just doesn't make any sense to me why what was perfectly acceptable in the late 90's as a kids game is now somehow not. If it were set back in the 50's or something and had some real sexist or racist stuff (as that kind of thing was commonplace back then) then I'd be inclined to understand. Just watch some popular Disney movies from that era (like Dumbo's stereotypical black crows for instance) and you'll see what I mean. There's really nothing bad about the original Spyro trilogy that would warrant anything to be censored. I mean the originals are already considered kids games and have an E rating for crying out loud.

I can at least somewhat understand the mentality behind changing the guns in Twilight Harbor so as to be more sensitive to mass shootings now days, but even then while I understand the change, I don't agree with it. Kids are smarter and more resilient than people give them credit for. They aren't gonna be traumatized over guns in the game because lord knows were weren't now were we? I mean they even kept that one boss fight in the Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy from the first game with the kangaroo dude who's a parody of Scarface essentially. For those that don't know, there's an entire boss fight in Crash 1 where the enemy literally does nothing but jump around and fire his machine gun at you - real bullets and everything! If it was fine with Crash, why not Spyro?

Again, I don't want to get political here, but this is exactly why I'm against pretty much all forms of censorship. It's a slippery slope that inevitably leads to nonsensical stuff being censored for no reason. So far what I've seen thus far in the Reignited Trilogy isn't a deal breaker. I'll still buy it and play the crap out of it, but if they go a bit too crazy with the censorship I will deeply disappointed. sad

Alcin · Jun 18, 2018 6:20 PM

raindrop717 wrote:

I think there's a good chance they won't do that to Elora, because none of the adult dragons so far have had pants or kilts and they are standing bipedally too, showing off just as much as she would be. Though I could be proven wrong.
It's highly likely, however, that they will now censor the gnorcs that moon you in the Peace Keeper's World, which will be sad. If they do, I hope its just a blurred spot or something, so at least the spirit will remain the same. Also, I'm curious how they probably censored the guns in Cliff Town. Purple goo REALLY doesn't fit there.

I see your point, and I raise that "Males wear nothing or just shirts/pants while the more humanoid females go full clothed" is a recurring enough design policy (see Lola Bunny VS Bugs Bunny). So far the adult dragons are all males who are drawn like majestic beasts/wacy creatures even if they do stand on two feet. Not so humanlike as Elora is.

I mean, I expect Elora to be modeled as more obviously curvy, more "human" so to speak, thanks to modern techology (going from the little that's been shown of fairies). And when that happens I doubt the developers wish to have what's ultimately a cute girl going bottomless in the game.

Last edited by Alcin (Jun 18, 2018 6:24 PM)

Paranoia · Jun 19, 2018 12:13 AM

Aquila King wrote:

I don't want to get political here, but I'm worried that the PC police on the far left might have a slight influence on this going into it.
What if they censor Ripto slowly being consumed by the lava when you beat him? Or the gnorcs flashing their butts at you in Peace Keepers? Or the guy on the magic carpet in Scorch who steals the flags because his character might be perceived as slightly racist? (I've actually heard some people make that argument recently)
It just doesn't make any sense to me why what was perfectly acceptable in the late 90's as a kids game is now somehow not. If it were set back in the 50's or something and had some real sexist or racist stuff (as that kind of thing was commonplace back then) then I'd be inclined to understand. Just watch some popular Disney movies from that era (like Dumbo's stereotypical black crows for instance) and you'll see what I mean. There's really nothing bad about the original Spyro trilogy that would warrant anything to be censored. I mean the originals are already considered kids games and have an E rating for crying out loud.
I can at least somewhat understand the mentality behind changing the guns in Twilight Harbor so as to be more sensitive to mass shootings now days, but even then while I understand the change, I don't agree with it. Kids are smarter and more resilient than people give them credit for. They aren't gonna be traumatized over guns in the game because lord knows were weren't now were we? I mean they even kept that one boss fight in the Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy from the first game with the kangaroo dude who's a parody of Scarface essentially. For those that don't know, there's an entire boss fight in Crash 1 where the enemy literally does nothing but jump around and fire his machine gun at you - real bullets and everything! If it was fine with Crash, why not Spyro?
Again, I don't want to get political here, but this is exactly why I'm against pretty much all forms of censorship. It's a slippery slope that inevitably leads to nonsensical stuff being censored for no reason. So far what I've seen thus far in the Reignited Trilogy isn't a deal breaker. I'll still buy it and play the crap out of it, but if they go a bit too crazy with the censorship I will deeply disappointed.

I mean I'm not thrilled about the changes either, but what about the "far left" causes this? I'm sure the developers are probably just trying to go for a straight E rating, as opposed to T or E10 (which didn't even exist back when the game was released). Pretty much everything else in Spyro is "E for Everyone" material, so they're probably just trying to keep that ESRB rating to expand the potential audience. And it's a bit stricter now because of that intermediary rating. It's probably a pretty simple: guns = T (or E10) rating. Now if it ends up being E10 anyway, I might question it more, but I can't be too nit-picky since I never expected any remake in the first place. I could go on about how much I can't stand slippery slope arguments, but no need to get into all of that.

Alcin wrote:

On my front, I expect Elora to not be bottomless anymore. Like wearing a skirt or kilt (maybe to link her with Fracture Hills as an immigrant or descended from immigrants).

I guess I don't see what the issue with this would be? Seems like it would give her more of a backstory that makes sense in the world

I can agree with you guys on the fact that political correctness can go too far sometimes, but I fail to see how that's the case for this video game. Keep in mind, the purpose of a remake is to introduce the game to a new generation as well as appeasing the long time fanatics like us smile

Last edited by Paranoia (Jun 19, 2018 12:29 AM)

Aquila King · Jun 19, 2018 12:45 AM

Paranoia wrote:

I mean I'm not thrilled about the changes either, but what about the "far left" causes this?

Well, first of all, I wasn't speaking as a right-winger on this one since I'm a pretty strong lefty myself. I just disagree with a certain portion of extremists on the left, that's all.

But second, I was speaking mainly about SJW's, though in hindsight I probably shouldn't have brought that up. I can't stand having any sort of political discussions online, especially now days since everyone has such strong opinions on both sides. I happen to be a big Star Wars fan for instance (or at least I was until Disney came along), and I hate the way SJW's have tainted the series. I realize that's a discussion in and of itself really, but I just don't want to see any crazy SJW garbage like that taking place in Spyro. I realize that we haven't seen anything even close to that thus far, just saying that I hope we don't encounter it at all. Any time I see some sort of unnecessary censorship, I start to get cautious of that. That's why the thought sprang to mind.

And with that I'm off the topic. Anyone who wants to go further down the political rabbit hole with me I'll ignore. Sorry, I really shouldn't have brought that up at all. It just happened to come to mind, and I'm a wordy person who says everything he thinks, lol. My bad.

Paranoia wrote:

I'm sure the developers are probably just trying to go for a straight E rating, as opposed to T or E10 (which didn't even exist back when the game was released). Pretty much everything else in Spyro is "E for Everyone" material, so they're probably just trying to keep that ESRB rating to expand the potential audience. And it's a bit stricter now because of that intermediary rating. It's probably a pretty simple: guns = T (or E10) rating. Now if it ends up being E10 anyway, I might question it more, but I can't be too nit-picky since I never expected any remake in the first place.

Yeah, that makes sense. I just don't know personally the criteria they use for the videogame rating system, so I personally just don't know.

Paranoia wrote:

Keep in mind, the purpose of a remake is to introduce the game to a new generation as well as appeasing the long time fanatics like use smile

True. A lot ofus (like myself) keep trying to think of the game as a total perfect rendering of the original, but in reality it has just the right tweaks and additions to appeal to modern audiences. They've gotta expand the fanbase beyond just those who played the originals.

Paranoia · Jun 19, 2018 12:56 AM

No worries man, political discussions can be exhausting especially nowadays, and I rarely engage myself either. I didn't mean to come off as aggressive or anything--just wanted to put in my two cents.

I also don't agree with censorship in a general sense either, but in this case, as a game geared towards children (that also appeals to adults; one of the beauties of the original games!), I feel like it's not a politically motivated thing.

Edit: sentence that wasn't really relevant to the discussion

Last edited by Paranoia (Jun 19, 2018 4:33 AM)

Alcin · Jun 19, 2018 4:50 AM

Paranoia wrote:

Alcin wrote:
On my front, I expect Elora to not be bottomless anymore. Like wearing a skirt or kilt (maybe to link her with Fracture Hills as an immigrant or descended from immigrants).
I guess I don't see what the issue with this would be? Seems like it would give her more of a backstory that makes sense in the world

I didn't say giving her a kilt would be an issue. Indeed, I believe doing that and confirming her as a native of or at least having ancestors from FH would be well-played for how it'd flesh out a character a bit while still appeasing modern censors.

Paranoia · Jun 19, 2018 10:53 AM

Fair enough. I guess I'm not concerned either way if they take some artistic liberties with Elora's dress, but we're free to disagree on that tongue

To actually answer the question: I could see them maybe taking an ax to some of the level intro and outro cutscenes in the second game, since some of them were actually kind of morbid (Friendly NPCs murdering each other). That would be kind of sad to see since it did give the game and levels some character, so I hope they remain

Stormy · Jun 19, 2018 1:22 PM

Aquila King wrote:

Paranoia wrote:
I mean I'm not thrilled about the changes either, but what about the "far left" causes this?
Well, first of all, I wasn't speaking as a right-winger on this one since I'm a pretty strong lefty myself. I just disagree with a certain portion of extremists on the left, that's all.
But second, I was speaking mainly about SJW's, though in hindsight I probably shouldn't have brought that up. I can't stand having any sort of political discussions online, especially now days since everyone has such strong opinions on both sides. I happen to be a big Star Wars fan for instance (or at least I was until Disney came along), and I hate the way SJW's have tainted the series. I realize that's a discussion in and of itself really, but I just don't want to see any crazy SJW garbage like that taking place in Spyro. I realize that we haven't seen anything even close to that thus far, just saying that I hope we don't encounter it at all. Any time I see some sort of unnecessary censorship, I start to get cautious of that. That's why the thought sprang to mind.
And with that I'm off the topic. Anyone who wants to go further down the political rabbit hole with me I'll ignore. Sorry, I really shouldn't have brought that up at all. It just happened to come to mind, and I'm a wordy person who says everything he thinks, lol. My bad.

You didn't say anything out of line at all. While I think Paranoia is probably right to some degree about wanting to keep the E rating, I think it would be naive to assume the far left/SJW backlash they would get from including "realistic" guns doesn't also play a role in this decision. Companies make changes all the time due to their demands, and I'm actually slightly impressed that the "racist" egg thieves have yet to be changed.

Besides censorship being annoying to everyone else, the other problem with catering to SJWs is it's never enough. No apology or change is ever enough for them to forget the "problematic" thing you did. So I really hope TFB doesn't start going down that rabbit hole.

Full disclosure, I'm a "right winger" myself, but I don't think you have to be one to see the undue influence the far left can have on culture.

supercoupe91 · Jun 19, 2018 5:44 PM

I hate this kind of censorship with a passion. The people who be getting bent out of shape over these things weren't going to buy the game anyway. They just ruin things for everyone else. Of course it wouldn't be an issue if companies would stop cowering to these people.

raindrop717 · Jun 19, 2018 5:51 PM

Alcin wrote:

raindrop717 wrote:
I think there's a good chance they won't do that to Elora, because none of the adult dragons so far have had pants or kilts and they are standing bipedally too, showing off just as much as she would be. Though I could be proven wrong.
It's highly likely, however, that they will now censor the gnorcs that moon you in the Peace Keeper's World, which will be sad. If they do, I hope its just a blurred spot or something, so at least the spirit will remain the same. Also, I'm curious how they probably censored the guns in Cliff Town. Purple goo REALLY doesn't fit there.
I see your point, and I raise that "Males wear nothing or just shirts/pants while the more humanoid females go full clothed" is a recurring enough design policy (see Lola Bunny VS Bugs Bunny). So far the adult dragons are all males who are drawn like majestic beasts/wacy creatures even if they do stand on two feet. Not so humanlike as Elora is.

Which is kinda dumb if you think about it. Males have a lot more to hide in their nether regions that females do, lol. Anyway, I personally feel that the way the male dragons are depicted so far are no less human-like than Elora is but we'll see how Toys For Bob envisions her I guess. If anything, I think her fur essentially creates natural pants so to speak. But she might actually look kind of cool with a kilt.

Stormy · Jun 19, 2018 6:21 PM

supercoupe91 wrote:

I hate this kind of censorship with a passion. The people who be getting bent out of shape over these things weren't going to buy the game anyway. They just ruin things for everyone else. Of course it wouldn't be an issue if companies would stop cowering to these people.

Exactly - they're not customers, they just yell the loudest on Twitter. Happened in the video game industry, and now it's happening with comics and movies (namely Star Wars these days, as previously mentioned). Then when the product doesn't sell they blame it all on the actual customers being racists and sexists who just can't stand to see "inclusivity" or whatever.

This isn't happening with Spyro yet (and I honestly can't even think of anything in Spyro that could even be that big of a deal) but it has happened and will continue to happen with other franchises.

Aquila King · Jun 19, 2018 8:21 PM

Stormy wrote:

Full disclosure, I'm a "right winger" myself, but I don't think you have to be one to see the undue influence the far left can have on culture.

(since the conversation sorta went down the political direction anyway and there doesn't seem to be any flame wars erupting, I'll briefly mention this here I guess)

I think there are extremists on both sides of the political spectrum. You have SJW's on the far left, and the Alt-Right (basically white supremacists) on the far right. SJW's are basically the word police who make mountains out of mole hills, cry wolf on things that aren't bigoted at all, and try to force diversity in everything and turn it all into a numbers game to check box and see if you've met the proper 'inclusivity quota'. The Alt-Right however are just straight-up genuine racist, sexist, xenophobic bigots that actually are all the things SJW's accuse everyone else of. Most people don't fall in either category, and I like to see both sides of the political spectrum coming together to condemn both of these movements. I love more than anything else to see people getting along, that's the main thing that upsets me with this political climate.

Anyway, my point here in relation to this topic is that I don't think any of us here want to see anything genuinely racist / sexist / insensitive / deeply insulting / etc. in the Reignited Trilogy, but at the same time none of us want to see it be chopped up, censored, and altered like crazy so as to satisfy the arbitrary demands of SJW's.

There at least used to be a middle ground on most of these things, and I still think that the majority of people do fall somewhere in the middle between these extremes. I just think the advent of the internet has caused the extremists on both sides to be the strongest voices that everyone notices, so that's pretty much all you ever hear...

Stormy wrote:

Exactly - they're not customers, they just yell the loudest on Twitter. Happened in the video game industry, and now it's happening with comics and movies (namely Star Wars these days, as previously mentioned). Then when the product doesn't sell they blame it all on the actual customers being racists and sexists who just can't stand to see "inclusivity" or whatever.
This isn't happening with Spyro yet (and I honestly can't even think of anything in Spyro that could even be that big of a deal) but it has happened and will continue to happen with other franchises.

Thankfully from what I've seen thus far, they seem to for the most part be making a faithful adaption to the originals in this respect. However I have wondered if they would change some of the dragons from Spyro 1 into females (or maybe even add some female dragons) since the original was basically just one big sausage fest.

Of course it's like you said, if they did they'd likely receive backlash for not sticking to the original vision, and when they do they'll retort "well you're just sexist" as many others have done as you've mentioned.

I'd personally love to have had female dragons in the originals, and I love plenty of good strong female characters in anything really. I simply would have problems with them changing the originals in that way. As a lefty myself, I wouldn't even have minded LGBT dragons in the original for what it's worth. I simply wouldn't want it now, because it would clearly be an unnecessary change that pathetically panders to that demographic. I'm all for inclusivity in anything. I just think inclusivity should come naturally and not be forced into a numbers game, as well as shaming people for not meeting the right quota as a means of dismissing their genuine concerns.

supercoupe91 · Jun 19, 2018 8:39 PM

Maybe a little off-topic, but I thought there were some female dragons in the original game?

Aura24 · Jun 19, 2018 9:12 PM

Only female baby dragons in Year of the Dragon, but there were no female adult dragons in the originals.

Stormy · Jun 20, 2018 12:25 AM

Off topic political rant:

▼Hidden text

Anyway, yeah, I always wondered where the female adult dragons were. They had to exist. The lore says the fairies bring the eggs every 1000 years, but really... we know where they had to have come from. tongue

I wouldn't really mind them adding some, but I wouldn't want them to get rid of any of the original ones for it. So it would have to be in new content or something, which is highly unlikely. And yeah, thanks to SJWs there would always be the nagging feeling that they were only added due to political correctness. hmm

LGBT dragons would be a little silly IMHO; none of the dragons' sexualities were ever shown one way or another, so they'd have to go pretty far out of their way to intentionally portray it, making it seem forced.

Alcin · Jun 20, 2018 12:49 PM

raindrop717 wrote:

Which is kinda dumb if you think about it. Males have a lot more to hide in their nether regions that females do, lol. Anyway, I personally feel that the way the male dragons are depicted so far are no less human-like than Elora is but we'll see how Toys For Bob envisions her I guess. If anything, I think her fur essentially creates natural pants so to speak. But she might actually look kind of cool with a kilt.

It's a matter of of shape, really. The adult dragons seen so far are juuuust beastly/wacky looking enough to get away with their lack of pants. While I expect Elora will be designed to be more akin to the female Draenei/Eredar from Warcraft (has hooves and fur but is overall shapely) hence the skirt (or whatever).

Last edited by Alcin (Jun 20, 2018 12:50 PM)

supercoupe91 · Jun 20, 2018 5:17 PM

How do you we actually know the original game didn't have female dragons? Gender is never specified. For example, I always though the first dragon in Magic Crafters was female.

Last edited by supercoupe91 (Jun 20, 2018 5:18 PM)

Aquila King · Jun 20, 2018 5:27 PM

supercoupe91 wrote:

How do you we actually know the original game didn't have female dragons? Gender is never specified. For example, I always though the first dragon in Magic Crafters was female.

Well they all had male voice actors and male names, so...

supercoupe91 · Jun 20, 2018 9:11 PM

Aquila King wrote:

supercoupe91 wrote:
How do you we actually know the original game didn't have female dragons? Gender is never specified. For example, I always though the first dragon in Magic Crafters was female.
Well they all had male voice actors and male names, so...

Doesn't really mean anything. Voice actors voicing a character of the opposite sex is very common. There also isn't any dictation of what is a male or female name in the dragon worlds. Not saying you're wrong, just saying I don't think it's that cut and dry. A handful of dragons seem quite feminine to me.

Aquila King · Jun 21, 2018 12:00 AM

supercoupe91 wrote:

Aquila King wrote:
supercoupe91 wrote:
How do you we actually know the original game didn't have female dragons? Gender is never specified. For example, I always though the first dragon in Magic Crafters was female.
Well they all had male voice actors and male names, so...
Doesn't really mean anything. Voice actors voicing a character of the opposite sex is very common. There also isn't any dictation of what is a male or female name in the dragon worlds. Not saying you're wrong, just saying I don't think it's that cut and dry. A handful of dragons seem quite feminine to me.

Idk man, that just seems like a real stretch if you ask me. hmm

No offense, but I always figured it kind of obvious that all the dragons in the first game were male. Not a one of them ever appeared to be the least bit female. I'd be genuinely shocked if any of them turned out to be female considering there was literally no indication that they were.

Last edited by Aquila King (Jun 21, 2018 12:01 AM)

FuturisticEggThief · Jun 21, 2018 12:11 AM

I thought Tomas was female lol.

supercoupe91 · Jun 21, 2018 2:14 AM

FuturisticEggThief wrote:

I thought Tomas was female lol.

As did I.

raindrop717 · Jun 21, 2018 3:14 AM

Stormy wrote:

Anyway, yeah, I always wondered where the female adult dragons were. They had to exist. The lore says the fairies bring the eggs every 1000 years, but really... we know where they had to have come from.
I wouldn't really mind them adding some, but I wouldn't want them to get rid of any of the original ones for it. So it would have to be in new content or something, which is highly unlikely. And yeah, thanks to SJWs there would always be the nagging feeling that they were only added due to political correctness.

https://youtu.be/NfjU5B3grXE
Based off of how the Toys For Bob Senior Producer answers the question of "Are there any female dragons?" in this interview (at 4:10ish), we might see female dragons added.

Aquila King wrote:

supercoupe91 wrote:
How do you we actually know the original game didn't have female dragons? Gender is never specified. For example, I always though the first dragon in Magic Crafters was female.
Well they all had male voice actors and male names, so...

Some of the dragon's names could be argued as being feminine, or at least gender neutral. Like Apara, Azizi, Cosmos, Kasiya, Unika, or Useni. But I agree that they were all most likely intended to be males.

Last edited by raindrop717 (Jun 21, 2018 3:14 AM)

#1 Jun 18, 2018 3:37 PM

What else do you think will be censored?

#2 Jun 18, 2018 5:14 PM

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#3 Jun 18, 2018 5:48 PM

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#4 Jun 18, 2018 6:20 PM

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#11 Jun 19, 2018 5:44 PM

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#17 Jun 20, 2018 12:25 AM

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#18 Jun 20, 2018 12:49 PM

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#19 Jun 20, 2018 5:17 PM

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#20 Jun 20, 2018 5:27 PM

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#21 Jun 20, 2018 9:11 PM

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