The fight between old and new Spyro: Round II

Doppelgangergang · Jul 17, 2008 2:48 AM

[sub](Credit to Fletch_Talon for the idea of the two Spyros.)[/sub]

After the disastrous catastrophic failure of Round 1, I present you Round 2.

Basically, we will resume where we left off BUT...

NO PERSONAL ATTACKS. PLEASE!

If we have three personal attack here, I'm calling this off and we won't have a round 3. Ever.

Three strikes. Okay?

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I think the new Spyro brought in action junkies and boosted the overall fanbase and saved it from it's death.

ratchet · Jul 17, 2008 2:53 AM

How about we add most of the rules from Fletch's "Debates" topic.

- the topic of debate should be what is being debated, not the people who are debating (ie. dont personally attack the people youre arguing with, unless: see further down the list)

- someones opinion based on the point should not be taken as a personal attack (ie. if someone says they dislike something you like, they are not attacking you, if they said "only an idiot would like it" thats an insult)

- every point or counter-point should be followed by a reason, there is no point debating something if you arent backing up your arguments with either proof or reasoning, to not do so is insulting to your opponent, it implies dont respect them enough to explain yourself (ie. X is good because Y, not X is good)

- treat your opponents (in fact, everyone) the way you would like to be treated, chances are pretty high that if you treat your opponent with disrespect they are going to return the favour, this can lead to one or both parties feeling they have been insulted (ie. if you refuse to debate properly thus showing people the respect they deserve then they have every right to tell you to sodd off)

- if you see someone being shown disrespect or insulted etc. then stand up for them and let the other person know their behaviour is disrespectful (you should try to be unbiassed about this and stand up for someone regardless of whether you agree with their argument or not, but this can be hard and i have no doubt im guilty of watching someone i disagree with being completely chewed out, being unbiassed is something nobody can really do 100% successfully)

- try not to gang up on people, sometimes its hard because one side of an argument may be more unpopular than another and thus has fewer supporters, or some supporters of an argument may be unavailable for a period of time (this is more common on the internet) it is not quite fair for one person to have to defend themselves from multiple people all of whom are likely to be giving many different points at once, making it harder and more confusing to defend your position

- if you are going to take part in a debate or defend someone in a debate, be sure to read back a few pages to make sure you arent attempting to defend someone who has done something to incite retaliation (but also be sure to check to make sure they werent in turn retaliating against someone else and so on, insults/disrespect tends to automatically attract more of itself regardless of whether it is justified)

Doppelgangergang · Jul 17, 2008 2:55 AM

Good point.

-------

Doppel wrote:

I think the new Spyro brought in action junkies and boosted the overall fanbase and saved it from it's death.

spyromaster330 · Jul 17, 2008 3:16 AM

Well i like both old and new spyro. Sometimes i prefer old, sometimes i prefer new and sometimes i like them both the same. Right now im liking old a bit better. I like them for these reasons:

Old
-Freeroaming
-Has great levels
-Has great characters who i lke better then the new ones.
-Has fun, addictive gameplay
-Has lots of memorable moments.
-I think it has better sound
-I like the old Spyro model better

New
-Has more action then the origanals
-Better storyline
-Good characters but not as good as the origanals
-Great Cutscenes
-Makes you play for the storyline.

Flaws they have:

Old
-Not enough action
-Not as good a storyline but still good

New
-Can get a bit repetitive
-Linear
-Sound isnt as good
-Not long enough

ratchet · Jul 17, 2008 4:40 AM

I agree Spyromaster, except i think that THe originals had lots of action actually, but yeah, its not like TLOS where you just bash bash bash and button mash mash mash.

I think the new Spyro brought in action junkies and boosted the overall fanbase and saved it from it's death.

Quite true, it did bring in some combat players (though most joined for the storyline) except you must remember that the old Spyro could've continued and brought in new fans.
Besides, when TLOS Spyro began and "saved Spyro" it killed everything that Spyro was in the process.

Heres X reasons why I prefer original Spyro:

1. Music- THe "Epic" (i dont find it too epic, its just boring choir dark music, i find music like this ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH3GH7Pn_eA) epic), orchestral tunes are nice but i much prefered Stewarts rockin tunes, this is debatable though, and probably is only opinions.
2. Variety in gameplay- In TLOS, there are a few alternations, but it is mainly fight, bit of platforming, more fighting. Sure the fighting has different styles, bust most of them are quite boring like the strafing fireballs.
3. Bosses- I found the Bosses in the original games alot more fun than in TLOS, mostly because you have to use your mind to defeat them, and just not dodge this and repeatably press this button. Besides, in TLOS they reused buttons, ravage rider was steam all dressed up, the elemental dragon was Cynder, the exterminator or whatever is the second boss wrapped up, arborick and the scurvyings/assasins are all very similar engines, and i havn't played Gaul yet, but i bet he'll be a boss already used.
4. Design- TLOS is alot more detailed than the originals, obviously because of the Graphical capabilities, but the creativeness of backgrounds, levels, enemies and characters i found awesome in the originals
5. Comedy- Sparx is the only funny think in TLOS, and i DO find him funy, but the originals always made you smile, most of the Jokes were lame, but still altogether fun
6. Characters- All of the characters in TLOS are stereotypical, there is the Wise OLd Dragon who guides Spyro, Spyro the courageous kind hero, Sparx the funny wisecracking sidekick, Cynder the mysterious girl whos not very wise. Ofcource the originals had some stereotypes aswell but there were so many characters that it was hard to notice, and they were ment to be steretypes. All characters had great personalities though, with all kinds of emotions, you may disagree with me on this if you want. THis point Shouldn't be worried about.
7. Portals, Sparx the health Bar- Sparx the health bar was a very unique feature and some argue that he is unneeded these days, but i think he was great, and alot more believeable actually, even though he was a dragonfly who takes hits. I loved the idea of Portals, and taking them away is just making spyro not spyro anymore. My main point here is that the originals were the only games that spyro really WAS, oh and the first 3 GBA games!
8. Minigames- Some say that Spyro is not a party game, but i say he IS a party game... in disguise. The Minigames made the Spyro games have tonnes of variety, and insure that you do not get bored, they were great. And some provide alot of challenge.
9. Flame- I hated how its limited in TLOS, even if it was needed, Spyro should have unlimited flame
10.Length- TLOS is hell short, and is one of the greatest flaws
11.Levels- Under design, but still, the originals had tonnes and TONNES of level, really unique too. Even though the Levels in TLOS are long, there are only 6 or 7 in each game. THis was to cut down on making palettes, lazy, lazy Krome Studios. The level designs in TLOS are boring, look at ANB, you have the grass area, the snow/icy area, the volcano area, the crystal/electric/castle area.
12.Replay- well after you beat the boring games of ANB or TEN, what can you do? hmmm, ANB you cant do anything but upgrade your breaths, and you get nothing once you do so, and in TEN you can get these quills to get "concept art", a cheapy excuse for a prize which only some will want to take notice to, you can do the "dragon challanges" and unlock dark spyro, and then you can fight fight fight fight more... and its easier, WHAT A PRIZE (sarcastic) . A good Spyro game should have a Primary, secondary and Turshry collectable, or atleast the first 2.
13.Gliding- You can use it much more in the originals, you might as well not have it in TLOS
14.Storyline- I grew up with the storyline, and that gives me a good reason to prefer it. THe original Storyline was good enough, they didn't need to reboot it, just improve it. Sierra wanted Spyro to be such a certain thing that the just completely stuffed him up. Sure the Cutscenes and Voice actors are way better in TLOS, but you dont have to destory to create.

Fletch_Talon · Jul 17, 2008 5:00 AM

Doppel, let me just say the pic is awesome, tLoS spyro looks like he's insane (i hope he doesnt bite original spyro's ear...err horn off)

As for the debate at hand, in a perfect world the 2 would come together and be the greatest game ever and everyone on this site would be happy (though im sure someone somewhere would kick up a stink)

to be honest, that can still happen, I love the pictures ive seen of DotD and would love to see those graphics applied to the old world, i wouldnt mind having the action style combat, provided it still has the basic fire breath and charge (even if charge is simply a way of getting around quicker which does minimal damage on contact with an enemy)

give it an epic storyline if you must, but leave room for general silliness (like sheep flying UFOs) definitely go back to a free roaming world (with portals) at least that way you can continue in a linear path if you want, but others have the choice to go back and do extra things to help the population of that world (after all the dark master/ripto/sorceress/gnasty gnorc, will have had a big effect on the land)

what I would like to see is tLoS going back to being a history of the original spyro series, then the next games could involve original spyro having to save the world (again) this time because all of his enemies have discovered a way to ressurect the dark master who will obviously be defeated by tLoS spyro.
then spyro finds out he's inherited the spirit of the legendary purple dragon of old (tlos spyro) and he joins forces with a black dragon (strangely resembling cynder) and they join forces yadayadayada history repeats

ratchet · Jul 17, 2008 5:28 AM

Yeah, i agree. If Sierra said that Tlos takes place a few thousand years before original Spyro and explaine a few things, i would be much happier because Original Spyro wouldn't of been dumped, but Sadly, Sierra had to reboot because they're idiots.
Also, if Sierr did say it was connected, there probably would of been a bigger chance that Old Spyro might've came back.

spyromaster330 · Jul 17, 2008 6:44 AM

I wouldnt say that Sierra were idiots for rebooting exactly, but i would have prefered it if they made it set thousands of years before the old Spyro, like Ratchet said.

ratchet · Jul 17, 2008 7:02 AM

well they're more idiotic anyway.

nightspyro · Jul 17, 2008 7:11 AM

i like both.
as things get bigger, so will spyro.
we should see more spyro in the future new or old.

please click on the dragons
thankyou

Malefor · Jul 17, 2008 6:25 PM

i like new spyro way better old spyro is boring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A Guy · Jul 17, 2008 6:52 PM

I like the newer Spyro for a fer reasons.

1.More action-oriented gameplay
2.More of a challenge
3.Better storyline

EDIT:My opinion, of course.

bananababy · Jul 17, 2008 9:18 PM

Malefor wrote:

i like new spyro way better old spyro is boring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

An example of an unbalanced, un backed-up, Unbelievable Debate! ^

Spyro is Spyro. I believe the games went in this order (SO TECHNICALLY OLD = NEW ! LOL)
1. TLoS: ANB
2. TLoS: TEN
3. TLoS: DoTD
4. Spyro the Dragon
5. Spyro 2: RR/GTG
6. Spyro 3: YoTD
7. Spyro 4: EtD
8. Spyro 5: AHT
9. History repeats YADA YADA YADA

I think both of the game series have Pro's and Cons. smile
They're both great. smile

TheManiacOnWheels · Jul 18, 2008 12:13 AM

I like both, but I'll have to say New, because:
1. It's storyline is epic and has far more effect on the game itself than the originals.
2. The gameplay is more action based, and more my type of game.
3. I find the characters more interesting and more developed than most of the characters of the old series (not all). And they show more emotion and more accurately how a character would feel about the circumstances they find themselves in.
4. The music, to me, is beautiful (and I can't help liking fantasy music big_smile ). Stewart Copeland's was good, but then again, it's a completely different game.
5. I prefer the TEN/ANB/DotD model to the originals, too.

The originals were fun, not-easy-to-get-bored-of games, but they just didn't have that more mature plotline and dark edge that attracts me to the T.L.o.S games.

Cynder794 · Jul 18, 2008 12:37 AM

I personally like both old and new Spyro, it's hard to pick which one I like better. Here are things I like about both:

Old:
1. It was free roaming (going back and playing levels)
2. It had wonderful music! (Go Wizard Peak!!!)
3. Wonerful level designs!
4. I grew up with it!!!

New:
1. It has an epic storyline that draws me in.
2. I has really interesting characters, there were some that I could really relate to! I could talk about Cyril and his wonderful voice all day! *hugs picture of Cyril*
3. Its gameplay is more action oriented.
4. It's cutscenes were more interesting.

dragon protector x · Jul 18, 2008 5:47 AM

....Doppel Are you gana chance this becomeing a hearted debate that insults fly?

Doppelgangergang · Jul 18, 2008 6:25 AM

dragon protector x wrote:

....Doppel Are you gana chance this becomeing a hearted debate that insults fly?

If insults do fly, I'll call it off. We agreed on rules here. wink

---------------------------------

Okay, the reason why I am so strung up on TLoS is Storyline and action. Many fans of TLoS go for storyline and action. smile

Fletch_Talon · Jul 18, 2008 6:32 AM

and to counter that point, the reason I (and assumedly other old spyro fans) are peeved about the reboot is the fact that it took away the old spyro, now the closest thing we have to my knowledge is mario galaxy and despite that being an awesome game, its no spyro 1,2 or 3

ratchet · Jul 18, 2008 6:37 AM

Ratchet and Clank is a bit like Spyro too (except its a bit more action/Story oriented) so thats why i find it the 2nd best series (or tying equal with original Spyro anyway).
I havn't played mario galaxy, but i've heard its good, but yeah, its nothing like Spyro 1-3

Doppelgangergang · Jul 18, 2008 6:40 AM

Fletch_Talon wrote:

and to counter that point, the reason I (and assumedly other old spyro fans) are peeved about the reboot is the fact that it took away the old spyro,-----

That's what a reboot is intended for.

Fletch_Talon · Jul 18, 2008 7:16 AM

Doppelgangergang wrote:

Fletch_Talon wrote:
and to counter that point, the reason I (and assumedly other old spyro fans) are peeved about the reboot is the fact that it took away the old spyro,-----
That's what a reboot is intended for.

not necessarily, a reboot generally refers to the story, not gameplay

tLoS took away everything, they stripped the story and gameplay away then the personality of the main characters was stripped

then everything was replaced, ratchet was correct in saying ratchet and clank is similar to spyro, in fact ratchet and clank is more of a spyro game than tLoS

of course thats my point of view, and its based around the belief that a game is not judged by its main character, but rather by its gameplay

ive given multiple examples of this, but ill give one more

imagine the stink that would be kicked up if halo became like ratchet and clank, sure youre still shooting things, but not in the same way, all of a sudden the atmosphere of the game is a lot more childish (not saying R&C is for kids) and master chief and all the other characters personalities would have to change to match their surroundings

sure i for one would probably enjoy the game a lot more, but a lot of other peoplre wouldnt, and at least Id be able to see why people who liked the old version are upset, i wouldnt tell them to "get over it" "learn to accept change" or anything like that

ratchet · Jul 18, 2008 7:35 AM

I recon halo is more like ratchet and clank than old spyro is of new spyro, and same for ratchet and clank and old spyro

Fletch_Talon · Jul 18, 2008 7:39 AM

ratchet wrote:

I recon halo is more like ratchet and clank than old spyro is of new spyro, and same for ratchet and clank and old spyro

the confusing and badly structured sentence (like i can talk) is right, however i wanted to use halo as an example, and turning it into a sports/racing/rpg/etc. was a little too drastic

ratchet · Jul 18, 2008 8:01 AM

yeah, I have really bad grammer sometimes lol

Fletch_Talon · Jul 18, 2008 8:02 AM

bah, everyone has their moments, sometimes its just hard to think of a good way to say what you want

amirite

#1 Jul 17, 2008 2:48 AM

The fight between old and new Spyro: Round II

#2 Jul 17, 2008 2:53 AM

Re: The fight between old and new Spyro: Round II

#3 Jul 17, 2008 2:55 AM

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#4 Jul 17, 2008 3:16 AM

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#5 Jul 17, 2008 4:40 AM

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#6 Jul 17, 2008 5:00 AM

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#7 Jul 17, 2008 5:28 AM

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#8 Jul 17, 2008 6:44 AM

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#10 Jul 17, 2008 7:11 AM

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#11 Jul 17, 2008 6:25 PM

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#12 Jul 17, 2008 6:52 PM

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#14 Jul 18, 2008 12:13 AM

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