Turning Spyro into something he's not

Spyro Master · Feb 02, 2009 10:13 PM

thx reddragonx i did it while i was off school todaybecasue of the snow i dnt know how to make a banner yet anyway bt yeh it would b a good idea having 3 or more different stories perhaps follow cynders past when she was evil like ive said on here b4 or mabye the the guardians or malefors past sort of fighting in the dark master wars

ratchet · Feb 03, 2009 9:36 AM

RedDragonX wrote:

And their is nothing wrong with ranting Thrasher lol....especially when they are good ideas....and I do agree. Having three seperate stories. Kinda like that new version of Sonic....where each character had their own story....except maybe a little more involved with each other.

eh, I'm not into that kind of game. I would rather the switch at any time idea (but not having all characters at the start of the game). I might be getting your idea wrong, but wouldn't taht mean that if you missed something the first playthrough with one character, and you discover it on on the second playthrough, you'd have to beat the gamea gain bfore getting it, then you might disover something you could only do with the second character. I would just find it irritating, but I might be getting the wrong impresion on your idea, Trasher.

RedDragonX · Feb 03, 2009 5:11 PM

Well in terms of each having their own story...I mean it would be like having three seperate storylines....you can't switch between characters while you are involved with one storyline....and such....but Idk....I like the fact of having other storylines....but in Sonic for example you have to beat one storyline to move onto the next one. I guess it could work....

Trasher258 · Feb 04, 2009 3:27 AM

It's similar but you can unlock a different character without having to go through the entire storyline. The story I have in my notes (related to the banner in my sig) forces you to play as Colas first. Later on, the story plot comes to one of the major key points where another character will become available, Elora. In the middle of the game, a surprising twist occurs that reveals a conflict within Spyro, who is unlocked last. Why? Well...it would seem obvious the fans would go straight at him first but I wanted to show a different perspective first that would be more familiar to them. Colas is a human character and he has no clue where he is or what is going on at first...he had a harsh time. I recall posting info on him somewhere on the forum...here. I don't want to give too much away so that's all I will put for now.

EDIT: The game is semi-liner. Some levels, which I simply name story levels, deals with telling major key points in the story and sometimes there will be tutorials for gameplay controls. Most other levels are acessable from a hub or world with portals leading to other levels. I think there can be some primary & secondary quests in the hub levels that may prevent you from accessing some levels...there's just alot to explain. (Refer to the link or click on the banner for the notes...since my hands are currently tied I can't work on them that much.) I have the game mechanics mostly planned out so all I need to do now is have the level design and progression layered out.

RedDragonX · Feb 04, 2009 4:17 AM

Elora huh....well I wasn't a big fan of the character but I suppose that it would be interesting to see some kind of plot around her for once.

Jackson117 · Feb 04, 2009 7:26 AM

Heck maybe have in a spyro game when you fight a ape the word

HEADSHOT yells in

ratchet · Feb 04, 2009 10:07 AM

RedDragonX wrote:

Well in terms of each having their own story...I mean it would be like having three seperate storylines....you can't switch between characters while you are involved with one storyline....and such....but Idk....I like the fact of having other storylines....but in Sonic for example you have to beat one storyline to move onto the next one. I guess it could work....

I'm not into the 3 different storyline Idea either, but nice ideas Thrasher. I just hate games where once you beat a level you cant go back. Especially when you have to score 100% in the game.

Spyro Master · Feb 04, 2009 7:49 PM

good ideas its ok i find bt i would get confused or something lol like which storyline im folloiwing lol

RedDragonX · Feb 05, 2009 1:50 AM

Well it wasn't that difficult to follow lol...but yeah I wouldn't want to see a Spyro game that does that anyways. I'm really not very good at thinking up ideas...except for stories.

Spyro Master · Feb 05, 2009 9:51 PM

perhaps mabye cynder and spyro gt split up after the wrld went into pieces (yes i know it goes against the scene we c at the end of DOTD) and u hav to play as both of em to find each other again with them both heading bak to the dragon temple (or did malefor destory that?) if so getting bak to teh dragon city mabye i dunno

Saeth · Feb 05, 2009 11:06 PM

RedDragonX wrote:

That is a debate that has been ongoing for a very long time. Their are many different aspects of this from which you can approach the subject....but it really goes down to the reasons why Insomniac did what they did and where Spyro has gone from there. They felt that they couldn't continue to be successful with the character development...and wanted a more usable character they could build upon.
Wether or not Spyro would have been successful should Insomniac continued to create the games is something we will never know..but they made their decision and stuck to it.....the same formula was attempted afterwards with ETD and AHT...both failing to deliever to full expectations....and so things changed once more. We will never really know....but I feel that Spyro would have gone down further had they kept going with the original direction....at least with the companies who were in charge of his development.

Hmm, perhaps Spyro isn't as flexible as one might think then? For some odd reason I seem to forget about ETD... AHT i can't vouch for nor criticize for as I have never played it.

Perhaps then we, or to be more blunt, I'm being too sore about Spyro not going back to his original formula or that Insomniac decided to leave Spyro. They said it themselves that they felt limited to him. Sure, he can't hold a gun, and him being in a FPS would be a tad weird. But the concept is not something that I shun at, its mostly its execution.

Sierra can be simply milking Spyro for what he is worth, or maybe they are just trying to get into the groove of things with him? I dunno, its been quite a long time for them to get into shape with him, but then again I'm undermining that they have other titles to concentrate on (Hence why Krome and EL dev'ed the last three games).

So, it would seem that we now have to find a Dev co. that can be imaginative, creative, and committed to Spyro, even if they are working for Sierra, they can still kinda blow them off and make something that they think will work (as long as it doesn't completely 180 from what Sierra was thinking).

All in all, what I mean is, the concept of a game can be good but once it gets into its execution stages, that's when everything can go downhill.

ETD IMO could have been a good game, if Sierra would have taken their time on it, and fixed the bugs and brought in some more ideas, instead of just trying recycle the same old enemies over and over again and recycling the same concept as well (Spyro isn't Mario or Mega Man, it just doesn't work).

Heck, even LOZ, Mario, and Mega Man have grown over the decades. Sure you can still find the same concept but its always challenged and brought into a different light each time.

Then again LOZ and Mario throw continuity out the window, but Mega Man IMO seemed to do ok (from MegaMan X - 4, I can't say much about the rest, haven't played them).

Who knows, maybe Sierra needs to take a chill pill with Spyro and think of something that will really bring the old fans and the new fans together in one big happy family.

And... did I just go off topic again??

TornWings · Feb 06, 2009 12:24 AM

Something to bring the fans of both sides together?

I honestly think they'd need a miracle for that.

They're at least making a token effort at improving, with the change in developers for the 3rd game. I thought the 3rd game was a big step up from the last two, so it's got me hoping that they're going to try harder with the series.

RedDragonX · Feb 06, 2009 4:45 AM

Saeth wrote:

RedDragonX wrote:
That is a debate that has been ongoing for a very long time. Their are many different aspects of this from which you can approach the subject....but it really goes down to the reasons why Insomniac did what they did and where Spyro has gone from there. They felt that they couldn't continue to be successful with the character development...and wanted a more usable character they could build upon.
Wether or not Spyro would have been successful should Insomniac continued to create the games is something we will never know..but they made their decision and stuck to it.....the same formula was attempted afterwards with ETD and AHT...both failing to deliever to full expectations....and so things changed once more. We will never really know....but I feel that Spyro would have gone down further had they kept going with the original direction....at least with the companies who were in charge of his development.
Hmm, perhaps Spyro isn't as flexible as one might think then? For some odd reason I seem to forget about ETD... AHT i can't vouch for nor criticize for as I have never played it.
Perhaps then we, or to be more blunt, I'm being too sore about Spyro not going back to his original formula or that Insomniac decided to leave Spyro. They said it themselves that they felt limited to him. Sure, he can't hold a gun, and him being in a FPS would be a tad weird. But the concept is not something that I shun at, its mostly its execution.
Sierra can be simply milking Spyro for what he is worth, or maybe they are just trying to get into the groove of things with him? I dunno, its been quite a long time for them to get into shape with him, but then again I'm undermining that they have other titles to concentrate on (Hence why Krome and EL dev'ed the last three games).
So, it would seem that we now have to find a Dev co. that can be imaginative, creative, and committed to Spyro, even if they are working for Sierra, they can still kinda blow them off and make something that they think will work (as long as it doesn't completely 180 from what Sierra was thinking).

All in all, what I mean is, the concept of a game can be good but once it gets into its execution stages, that's when everything can go downhill.
ETD IMO could have been a good game, if Sierra would have taken their time on it, and fixed the bugs and brought in some more ideas, instead of just trying recycle the same old enemies over and over again and recycling the same concept as well (Spyro isn't Mario or Mega Man, it just doesn't work).
Heck, even LOZ, Mario, and Mega Man have grown over the decades. Sure you can still find the same concept but its always challenged and brought into a different light each time.
Then again LOZ and Mario throw continuity out the window, but Mega Man IMO seemed to do ok (from MegaMan X - 4, I can't say much about the rest, haven't played them).
Who knows, maybe Sierra needs to take a chill pill with Spyro and think of something that will really bring the old fans and the new fans together in one big happy family.
And... did I just go off topic again??

No you are not going off topic and you make some very good points. But I must say that bringing the two sides of fandom together would be a very very very daunting task....is it possible?...Yes...I believe it is....but people will always complain or be unsatisfied no matter what you do to please them....that much I have learned.

Spyro can not really evolve from what he was originally intented to be....sure you could add in the new feature here and there....but overall it wasn't going to go anywhere in time.

Is Sierra milking the franchise?...Certainly....that's what every developer will do to any franchise under their belt. They will use the popularity and ideas from earlier drafts to help build upon the money making machine. It's all about money and never forget it.

Yes Insomniac did originally create Spyro...and you can tell in their work that they took pride in it......but they still were going to milk it for all it was worth no doubt.....and when they saw that the series might take a tunr for the worse....they ditched it and thought of something that could keep green rolling in steady.

I have nothing against the companies who have tried to help the Spyro games....sure some were much worse then others.....but at least they made the attempt...better then Spyro falling off the cliff and into the pitch blackness of games long past. I will support the character whichever direction they go.....that's what I will do for the character that I enjoy....and I wish that all fans could do the same.

Piano_angel · Feb 06, 2009 4:14 PM

I have a few things to say. All of this is my opinion entirely and no one has to agree with me. smile

Firstly:
I have been a Spyro fan for about six years now. I personally love BOTH new and old Spyro games. I love the old one's for their originality, sweet nature and the great memories. They are fantastic games and I hope that no one ever forgets that, and, of course, who first created and molded this purple dragon we all know and love.
However, the new ones, in my opinion, are new, epic and for me quite emotional (not too sure why as it's nothing to do with Spyro and Cynder falling in love etc. I do think that's a little weird. o.O) He has indeed been remolded into something entirely different. I think that this is fair enough though, as no one else, I don't think, could make games as Insomniac did/do. I think it's very interesting to see something new, to see how another developer visualizes and perceives this little purple dragon. I think they did well with the title of "A New Beginning" also, as the name speaks for itself.

Secondly:
I can understand fans of the older Spyro games not liking the newer ones though. They are much darker and it seems that many people don't like the fact that there is so much fighting in them.
As I've said, I personally love them both. I'm an unswayed Spyro fan of all Spyro games! I mean heck! I even love Enter the Dragonfly despite it's poor game play etc.

And thirdly (people may not like this...)
Eveyone's allowed their own opinions, but I don't think it's worth fighting over. We all love Spyro right? And I think that really we all see Spyro very differently from each other anyway. So does it really matter which game he's in and which games we prefer? This is still Spyro we're talking about. Never mind all the "the old Spyro died ages ago"... As RedDragonX has said, it would be nice if we could all support this character and forget about the new Spyro and the old Spyro business.

I also agree with RedDragonX's earlier post, what more could be done with the "old Spyro" anyway? As great as it was I think the change was necessary and I'm not sure if many of the older Spyro fans will ever be swayed towards the newer ones. That's fair enough, but I think a Spyro fan who truely appreciates the character, as some do, would understand this and accept the change.

I respect everyone's opinion entirely so please don't flame me for saying this. (LOL flame... Get it? xD ...Okay maybe not. tongue )
Phew long post!

Neotyguy40 · Feb 06, 2009 5:20 PM

Just like Angel, this too is my opinion entirely, and I have a right to my own opinion (The person I am directing this to should know who they are), so don't try and stop me.

The old series were great games, but I don't want to have the same game over and over and over... Do you?

I have noticed that many Spyro games have been getting much less popular until ANB, so that must mean that the developers are doing something right. I have yet to see this thread that wants Spyro games to be rated M or MA with high violence and stuff, so I don't believe Ratchet at the moment. I agree that I wouldn't like it as much as the older Spyro games or the newer ones, but I would still buy it if it comes out. Why? Well I like the newer games much better then the older ones, mostly because I was sick of the games just repeating the game before, just with better graphics. They might as well just recreate the first 3 games just with better graphics (hmm... that's an idea). So basically, I want the older series to be gone, and I want more of the new series. I was a Spyro fan since the first game, and I am still a Spyro fan with the newer games.

So my advice: If you don't like the idea... DON'T BUY IT!!! That's all you can really do, developers only listen to players who don't rant and flame, infact if I was a developer of a game (wait... I am...), then I would do the opposite of what the ranting players wanted.

Spyro Master · Feb 06, 2009 6:12 PM

like neoty and piano angel i like both old and new spyro and im an old spyro fan as i was wiv it right from the start so over 10yrs as thats when its started when spyro first came out bt it wont stop i think this debate bt if they managed to create a game where both TLOS spyro fans and original spyro fans both liek then i would b happy cause the people like me neoty and piano angel like both and just want the arguing to stop i think even though i doubt it will

RedDragonX · Feb 06, 2009 8:32 PM

Thank you very much for the mention Angel....and yes you are correct. As a whole it would be nice to see all of the fans support the series for what it is....but unfortunetly it's something that is far from the minds of other fans.

One of the reasons why I did start posting on this site was because I didn't see nearly as much support for the new games then the old....and that's fine to a degree....we all have our own personal opinions on just what we want to see with Spyro....but we are not the ones who have the final say in the matter.

The older games were wonderful and still have a very firm spot in my heart....but things change...that's part of life as a whole. Nothing ever stays the same forever. The character had its limits....and Insomniac wanted something they could keep building upon. No matter what developers will always think about where the money is first....because in order to bring an enjoyable gaming experience to us they need the funds to do so....so such changes are not a direct factor of simply wanting to make a change.

Anyways I would love to see more support LoS for what it is....I wasn't a big supporter of it at first myself....but I did realize that the game had its advantages and disadvantages like every other game....and it is certainly much better off that way then seeing the series completely dead as a whole.

Nevertheless....people will think what they want to think...and one of the direct points of this forum is for us fans to share our own opinions on the matter. Spyro is still going strong right now....with a pretty good direction...and I am satisfied...seeing as how nobody could have picked it up after the failure in ETD and AHT. I agree with what Angel said that I like seeing how different developers might approach the character in general....makes it fun to think about what's coming out next.....but it is not going to cater to every single gamer....and that's something they have more then accepted when they did what they did.

I love Spyro as much as any fan...but I'm not going to let prejudice for one certain series over another kill my desire to see more games created. Everyone will argue or debate as they do....that's just part of our nature....but we all should try to remember that we are all fans as a whole...simply disagreeing with certain topics in good faith that we want to see what's best for Spyro. In the end though.....I'm going to support it and see the good in whatever project the developers release.

Spyro Master · Feb 06, 2009 9:44 PM

i tihnk there is another group on thsi forum people who r inbetween TLOS and original spyro in terms of liking it i tihnk i am one of them and i tihnk reddragon piano angel and wolf gurl is to and yeh reddragon is right mroe people should like TLOS as there is notihng wrong wiv it much and its spyro still and i think teh flame wars between the groups of original lovers and TLOS lovers should stop 2 b honest and i tihnk wot everyone wants in the end is the arguing to stop

RedDragonX · Feb 06, 2009 10:53 PM

Well no matter what they wars will continue...but the moderators have taken steps to limit the amount of flame wars that have broken out. Thankfully they have really cut down since I joined the forum.

Spyro Master · Feb 06, 2009 11:09 PM

yeh u joined nt long after i joined looking at the joined thing at ur right as well they hav cut down a lot i think we r in a peaceful time at the forum bt this will prbaly change when... hang on ive wrked it out whenever something new of spyro comes out its a flame war like there was a a few whne DOTD was leading to come out and when it actually did so it migth happen when teh film comes out or teh nxt game

RedDragonX · Feb 06, 2009 11:56 PM

Well I thank the moderators for that....because I was getting really sick of arguing over that crap -.-....at least on pretty much every topic.

Spyro Master · Feb 07, 2009 12:10 AM

yeh good point it was annoying bt ratchet i think found it fun (im guessing here i dnt know wot goes on in ratchets mind o.O)

RedDragonX · Feb 07, 2009 12:14 AM

Ratchet just speaks his mind as clearly as possible lol....doesn't really care what happens as a result.

Spyro Master · Feb 07, 2009 12:17 AM

ive just noticed hes come on so we will soon find out wot he thinks how could he know that quickly i put something about him o.O

RedDragonX · Feb 07, 2009 12:20 AM

It's an open forum lol...he has every right to express his ideas just as we do...that's what leads to great discussions/debates most of the time haha...but we have been good lately.

#76 Feb 02, 2009 10:13 PM

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#77 Feb 03, 2009 9:36 AM

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#78 Feb 03, 2009 5:11 PM

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#79 Feb 04, 2009 3:27 AM

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#80 Feb 04, 2009 4:17 AM

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#81 Feb 04, 2009 7:26 AM

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#82 Feb 04, 2009 10:07 AM

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#83 Feb 04, 2009 7:49 PM

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#84 Feb 05, 2009 1:50 AM

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#85 Feb 05, 2009 9:51 PM

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#86 Feb 05, 2009 11:06 PM

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#87 Feb 06, 2009 12:24 AM

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#88 Feb 06, 2009 4:45 AM

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#89 Feb 06, 2009 4:14 PM

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#90 Feb 06, 2009 5:20 PM

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#91 Feb 06, 2009 6:12 PM

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#92 Feb 06, 2009 8:32 PM

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#93 Feb 06, 2009 9:44 PM

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#94 Feb 06, 2009 10:53 PM

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#95 Feb 06, 2009 11:09 PM

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#96 Feb 06, 2009 11:56 PM

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#97 Feb 07, 2009 12:10 AM

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