Plotholes in DotD

Aura24 · Mar 30, 2009 5:28 PM

There a few plotholes in DotD, made by the change of game developers. First, how did Spyro and Cynder grow up inside the Time Crystal, when they were still young at the end of TEN when Hunter of Avalar found them? Since they were frozen in time, they can't grow into teenagers. Which probably explains that they haven't aged or grew up a bit in height as the Guardians were still taller than them. They can still free-fly, even if they are young.

Second, how did Cynder get her iron jewelry back on?? They weren't on her in TEN and after she was frozen in time with Spyro at the end of the game. I know, they were suppose to help Cynder face her fears of being Malefor's pawn, but there's got to be a better reason.

I say it would've been better if EL kept the TEN design of Spyro and Cynder, instead of just making them teens. It would make much more sense if they made them teens in the next Spyro game.

T3h0v4llu · Mar 30, 2009 7:17 PM

This has been discussed over and over again

Oh well... all the plotholes are because of A. EL didnt care about plotholes and they just rushed the game. B. EL implemented plotholes with a reason so we all would be puzzled and try to figure them out.

Aura24 · Mar 30, 2009 7:55 PM

If they should've kept TEN design for Spyro and Cynder, then there wouldn't be any plotholes. They can still fly even if they are young dragons.

Spyro Master · Mar 30, 2009 10:00 PM

Yeah they can fly as young ones but i gather they can't fly a lot as it tires them out quicker i think. Which would be another reason why they were suddenly made into teenagers to make it seem more sense when they are older and flying all the time.

TornWings · Mar 30, 2009 10:21 PM

Cynder's iron braces etc. were probably just a case of "Oooh, that looks cool... let's keep it." "But it doesn't make sense." "We'll come up with something..." Same thing probably happened with the new dragon designs, considering they were defintely concentrating on visuals.

RedDragonX · Apr 04, 2009 3:02 AM

Aura24 wrote:

If they should've kept TEN design for Spyro and Cynder, then there wouldn't be any plotholes. They can still fly even if they are young dragons.

Well go ahead and tell that to the developers who wanted to draw more of an audience through transforming the pair into a more teenage looking appearance.

Aura24 · Apr 04, 2009 3:33 AM

I found the response to it by Chris Wilson on the Sierra forums before it was closed down to be reopened at the Activision site sometime in early April.

Regarding your question, when we began working with the new team at EL, we took the opportunity to explore different looks and "ages" for Spyro and Cynder. We also had to make some changes to allow for the new gameplay features, such as needing larger wings to work with the flight feature and to allow the characters to block with their wings. The team came up with a variety of concepts and we settled on what you see in DotD. We didn't want to change it too much, but it was a good opportunity to allow the characters to grow up a bit (just like many of the fans were growing up too). It was also a good time to make this change given that it was the 10 year anniversarry for the Franchise. Had we made the game with Krome, its difficult to say what would have happened, but I'm sure there would have still been some changes. Since this was the first time Spyro was on the next-generation consoles, we had to update the model to take advantage of the new technology on the PS3 and Xbox 360.

RedDragonX · Apr 05, 2009 12:27 AM

Well I have a feeling that Krome would have done a better job with more adult looking characters. Then again, they were not suppose to age to begin with anyways....so they would have looked the same I bet.

Aura24 · Apr 05, 2009 1:32 AM

Yeah, Spyro and Cynder were still the same height as they were in TEN, that's why they look smaller than the Guardians even though they're teens.

RedDragonX · Apr 05, 2009 2:15 AM

Yeah we pretty much have already proved that the two of them didn't really age at all....it was just the change in art design that made them appear more adult like....and Sierra simply pushed on that idea as to help appeal to an older audience that the character is now growing up.

ratchet · Apr 08, 2009 12:46 PM

Aura24 wrote:

I found the response to it by Chris Wilson on the Sierra forums before it was closed down to be reopened at the Activision site sometime in early April.
Regarding your question, when we began working with the new team at EL, we took the opportunity to explore different looks and "ages" for Spyro and Cynder. We also had to make some changes to allow for the new gameplay features, such as needing larger wings to work with the flight feature and to allow the characters to block with their wings. The team came up with a variety of concepts and we settled on what you see in DotD. We didn't want to change it too much, but it was a good opportunity to allow the characters to grow up a bit (just like many of the fans were growing up too). It was also a good time to make this change given that it was the 10 year anniversarry for the Franchise. Had we made the game with Krome, its difficult to say what would have happened, but I'm sure there would have still been some changes. Since this was the first time Spyro was on the next-generation consoles, we had to update the model to take advantage of the new technology on the PS3 and Xbox 360.

I think I asked taht question smile , cant seem to find the forum anymore though.

Anyway, this proves my point, Sierra Purposely changed the Models of Spyro and Cynder to look older. It wasn't by accident.

finlandspyrofan · Apr 08, 2009 1:49 PM

Aura24 wrote:

I found the response to it by Chris Wilson on the Sierra forums before it was closed down to be reopened at the Activision site sometime in early April.
Regarding your question, when we began working with the new team at EL, we took the opportunity to explore different looks and "ages" for Spyro and Cynder. We also had to make some changes to allow for the new gameplay features, such as needing larger wings to work with the flight feature and to allow the characters to block with their wings. The team came up with a variety of concepts and we settled on what you see in DotD. We didn't want to change it too much, but it was a good opportunity to allow the characters to grow up a bit (just like many of the fans were growing up too). It was also a good time to make this change given that it was the 10 year anniversarry for the Franchise. Had we made the game with Krome, its difficult to say what would have happened, but I'm sure there would have still been some changes. Since this was the first time Spyro was on the next-generation consoles, we had to update the model to take advantage of the new technology on the PS3 and Xbox 360.

*bleep*!i hope new games come to ps2 too because mom dosen`t want new consoles in house sad

IceFlame1019 · Apr 08, 2009 2:07 PM

I hope so too, PS3s and Xbox are too expensive @@
Unfortunately, even the mighty PS2 is being outmoded for the 3's super graphics and processor speed. Given the rate at which series are dropping the PS3, I don't think the purple dragon will see PS2 after DotD sad that's just how it rolls...

I hope they're smart and offer a PS2 version for us Spyro fans too poor or limited to get a next-gen console, but I doubt they will; the PS2 and PS3/Xbox/Wii versions are essentially different copies, each made for the specific console, and it would probably save Sierra time and money to not make a downgraded version for PS2. But who knows, it's possible they'll be compassionate XD

The plot-hole thing happens when you have to make changes. Spyro and Cynder could have kept going with their "cute" Krome builds, but having them look more mature really brought a better atmosphere IMO. I mean, take the ending, Cynder's confession. In their Krome forms, it would've been more "Awww, so cuuute!!" because they look so young. In their EL forms they're more grown-up, so the feeling is more deep and serious.
Cynder's iron bands, I really cannot understand. How the **** does she grow with those on? The one on her neck will choke her in a year or two. It worked with her evil adult form in ANB because she was full-grown, but for DotD they really should've given her something more "flexible". I guess they were going for the inherent "cool" appearance but beyond that, I don't get it.
Growing up in the crystal...that's another thing I don't get, but my theory is that they were "preserved" in a time crystal, not flat-out frozen. Kinda like cryogenic freezing or something. They're still alive obviously, so maybe they were sustained inside while their bodies developed. That kinda makes it not a "time" crystal as we were told, but meh...kinda hard to explain. Maybe it froze time for them on another level, like a spiritual level or something, leaving their material forms to develop as the years passed. I dunno XD

TornWings · Apr 08, 2009 2:43 PM

There's no good way to explain why/how they changed. Probably best to leave that as "Well, they didn't quite think this through"

Aura24 · Apr 08, 2009 4:33 PM

It was the sudden change of developers that caused these plotholes. Remember, at the end of TEN, Hunter found Spyro and Cynder, who were still in their Krome forms, frozen in time. But in DotD, it was the Grublins that found Spyro and Cynder first while Hunter secretly followed them. And the time crystal was already carved out instead of being stuck around debris of the Mountain of Malefor.

RedDragonX · Apr 08, 2009 6:28 PM

The change in developers was the largest cause yes, that and I'm sure the developers were looking for someone who could at least make things appear the way they wanted it to appear. Through rushing this process and not thinking such things through this is the result that you achieve. I didn't mind EL doing the game but I want to see it after they've actually had time to put a decent amount of work in it.

Aura24 · Apr 09, 2009 2:51 AM

It makes me wonder if they'll keep EL's design in the next Spyro game, or go back to Krome Studios. We won't know until before or after the release of the Spyro Movie.

~cornys~ · Apr 09, 2009 3:21 AM

Yeah.. there doesn't have to be a reason does there? A casual player wouldn't notice it... (I didn't at first) ... and anybody who cares to ask why it changed or even notic is all ready sold on the next games so there is no point if it draws possably new fans... There ain't much of a reason... That's my thinking.

Aura24 · Apr 09, 2009 4:16 AM

At first I was excited to play DotD when it first came out, and I finished the game several times. Then realization kicked in, and I was thinking how did Spyro and Cynder grow up inside the crystal when they were suppose to look like little dragons, and how did Cynder get the iron jewelry back on her while she was inside the crystal when she clearly didn't have them on at the end of TEN.

IceFlame1019 · Apr 09, 2009 4:20 AM

A graphical switchback would be bad for them. Casual players might not notice, but jumping back and forth from one to another inherently makes people question wtf is going on with the game. Now that they've created a more mature Spyro and he's known to be more grown-up after his media attention, people will be expecting the mature Spyro. Krome could make them more mature in appearance, but even that graphic switch would irk a lot of people.

People may prefer the Krome appearance, but from a stability, financial and developmental standpoint, Sierra stuck their foot into a new design and would be smart to stick with it, and not risk losing fans due to flip-flopping between styles. The way I see this, people wanting Krome back, makes me think of comics. You're going along, browsing through a comic and getting into it, and all of a sudden the entire art style changes. The new style comes at a critical, deepening point in the storyline. When you switch art styles, it's not smart to suddenly go back to the old way of doing it. People get used to the original, then have to adapt to the new, then it gets switched back just as they've accepted the new style? Some people may not care so long as the story is good, but it's too much of a risk to chance. Change is natural, but too much change is jarring.

...here i go preaching again :S XD

Aura24 · Apr 09, 2009 5:21 AM

I wondered if they were planning on keeping Spyro and Cynder the same before they started the idea of making them older.

IceFlame1019 · Apr 09, 2009 1:58 PM

Maybe. But from what I've read, the real drive was the fact that a lot of people, both gamers and developers, were remarking that Spyro is still so young after ten years. As said in an interview, the Legend of Spyro story is also one of growth and personal discovery for Spyro, which would be harder to convey had they not grown up a bit more; the game brings the player into Spyro's life and lets them see him grow up. True, they could have kept them young and progressed to maturity in future games, but Spyro finally "maturing" was what they wanted to use for his 10th anniversary.

It would have been interesting to see them emerge from the crystal a few days after the incident, but that wouldn't give Malefor enough time to wreak enough havoc to really make the game a sort of "final struggle".

Aura24 · Apr 10, 2009 1:30 AM

Still, they should've thought this through. They even said they were going to add some scenes in the game, but they didn't have time because they were rushing to finish making the game.

RedDragonX · Apr 10, 2009 5:57 AM

IceFlame1019 wrote:

Maybe. But from what I've read, the real drive was the fact that a lot of people, both gamers and developers, were remarking that Spyro is still so young after ten years. As said in an interview, the Legend of Spyro story is also one of growth and personal discovery for Spyro, which would be harder to convey had they not grown up a bit more; the game brings the player into Spyro's life and lets them see him grow up. True, they could have kept them young and progressed to maturity in future games, but Spyro finally "maturing" was what they wanted to use for his 10th anniversary.
It would have been interesting to see them emerge from the crystal a few days after the incident, but that wouldn't give Malefor enough time to wreak enough havoc to really make the game a sort of "final struggle".

And now they have to struggle with the dilemma that presents itself with Spyro's overall aging. I mean sure they can make the dragon grow and learn more about his own destiny and abilities and such as he would, but to many that would be killing the overall image of Spyro.

Everyone remembers Spyro as the plucky little purple dragon that never really gets old. I for one can picture things outside the box and I wouldn't mind seeing a game where he is fully grown up, but many of the older fans would prolly want to burn the developers at the stake for tarnishing the original image of Spyro.

It will be interesting to see what they do in the end....but since they knew they would be losing a large amount of fans with LoS anyways, it wouldn't surprise me of they took this growing up concept and applied it all the way through.

~cornys~ · Apr 10, 2009 5:56 PM

We have all grown up.. Why not Spyro?

#1 Mar 30, 2009 5:28 PM

Plotholes in DotD

#2 Mar 30, 2009 7:17 PM

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#3 Mar 30, 2009 7:55 PM

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#4 Mar 30, 2009 10:00 PM

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#6 Apr 04, 2009 3:02 AM

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