The reboots and their effects on the fandom

Stormy · Mar 10, 2014 9:06 PM

Here's a topic I've brought up a few times in other threads, but I don't think I've discussed it in detail much on here.

Some of you may have been around here long enough to remember all the arguments between Legend of Spyro and classic Spyro fans. Classic fans said the Legend series wasn't the real Spyro and had destroyed the series. And there really wasn't much similarity between the two series.

Now has anyone else noticed that the same exact thing is happening with Skylanders? Legend fans are saying it ruined Spyro, which was ironically the same thing that was being said about the Legend series before. I've even seen Legend of Spyro fans rally to "bring back classic Spyro!" when what they really mean is to make a sequel to Dawn of the Dragon.

Personally, I don't really care what happens anymore, but it's kind of interesting to watch history repeat itself. tongue

o-danny-o · Mar 10, 2014 9:10 PM

I gave up the idea of any continuation of TLOS or classic...

It's dead. Skylanders is literally the money-cow for Activision, and a reboot or sequel would ony be to please a few fans...

Flapjacks · Mar 10, 2014 10:12 PM

10 years from now, there will either be a new series (unlikely) or more Skylanders, and these new games won't be like the Skylanders we have today. Today's children will be saying "Bring back the classic Skylanders!," because the Spyro IP won't just disappear. Games will keep being made using it. Activision will either hold onto it and do nothing with it (which is unlikely, because Skylanders is a major source of income,) or make more Skylanders games.

Stormy · Mar 10, 2014 10:22 PM

Yep. And then the classic fans and Legend fans will both be like 30 and just not even care anymore. tongue

RangerOfIthilien · Mar 10, 2014 11:00 PM

o-danny-o wrote:

I gave up the idea of any continuation of TLOS or classic...
It's dead. Skylanders TLoS is literally the money-cow for Activision, and a reboot or sequel would ony be to please a few fans...

I've modified your post to prove Stormy and Flapjacks' point. I've only changed a couple words and yet this is exactly what you would have seen around here back when TLoS was big.

36IStillLikeSpyro36 · Mar 11, 2014 3:20 AM

it's hard to explain why i don't mind TLOS being part of the Spyro franchise.

maybe it's that it's a lot like A Hero's Tail, just with a new story. maybe it's that i had been away from Spyro for years anyway and didn't feel too shocked by the difference in games. except the end to TEN. that was a definite shocker.

it overall adds confusion to the fandom, that's for sure. a lot of people don't like one series, and some don't like another one, but we're all crammed in the same community.

Arenvir 98 · Mar 16, 2014 11:06 AM

I may have been a little whipped up in the initial fervor against Skylanders at one point or another (Honestly, it's been so long since I've even seen this site I don't even remember, but I digress) but with my growing up on LoS, I've got a degree of emotional attachment to the series, and when I see the threads mostly consisting of bashing one reboot or another, these days, I'm just tired of it. Honestly, they all have their own quirks, which I could potentially sum up entirely in another thread, but now's not the time for me to spew out half formed thoughts.

For the gist of it, just look at the demographic aim each sub-series targeted. Original spyro was a kid's game which had enough quality to stand up on it's own in adolescent eyes. LoS was aimed at growing and developing the character with the existing fanbase, shifting him from silly puzzles to situations which felt more... tense for the little dragon. Skylanders is a return to the younger kids, at a cost of a large amount of the original fanbase. From what I have heard, this cost was considered, and with new generations not really caring about the original state of things in the first place, decided it didn't matter (the change of demographic was likely brought up as a defense to some of the angry fans at one point or another).

What happened is the nostalgia value, as well as the perceived sacrifice of fairly decent material, triggered outrage. Some people just want to see the dead horse buried, most don't care, and others support the new game structure. In my own personal opinion, I prefer LoS spyro, and most of this comes from the fact that there's at least a sensible story I can latch onto and engage... and wonder just how much trauma the main characters are going to have to deal with afterwards (assuming realistic psychological parameters hold true in a fantasy world). That, and have you seen some of the decent fanfiction stemming from the LoS continuity? The stronger story base makes it somewhat easier to extrapolate complete characters from the mess that is video game psychology, and sometimes, it shows.

Insomniac's spyro also showed a large amount of character, as well, don't get me wrong, it's just not quite as developed in some cases. He's always cocky, and rather insensitive in some cases, which might suggest some sociopathic tendencies [1]. LoSpyro is somewhat more palatable, but he gets on my nerve when he's just a bit too perfect/sweet. Either way, I want to see the latter grow into something worthwhile, and the former just to grow up. Skylanders, however, has VERY little characterisation I've seen ingame, (Note, most character opinions I have are based ONLY ON THE GAMES THEMSELVES, you don't get to cop out with supplementary materials). Aside from LoSpyro's lore, and a hint of iSpyro's personality, there's not much. Skyro is honestly more a puppet than he is a character, and the only time I've seen him interact on a reasonable level is in commercials anyways, which just don't count. In other words, iSpyro is a little kid who really needs to grow up, LoSpyro needs to start showing the cracks, and Skyro needs to put something on the blank slate.

Well, so much for some of the holding back... I have more to say, but it's probably best left on the clipboard.

Addendum no. 1- The small bit bracketed [1] is a parenthetical statement which no longer has bearing on the point made... It's just a bit hard to separate the various interpretations and situations shown from those mentioned on the tangential remarks originally referenced, in which the situation was more suited to bringing up.

Last edited by Arenvir 98 (Mar 16, 2014 11:18 AM)

36IStillLikeSpyro36 · Mar 17, 2014 7:42 AM

it's an interesting post. i don't really mind some of the complaints you made like original Spyro's attitude, i'm fine with it, but i can see where you're coming from on all this.

and like i said, it's an interesting post. i just don't have too much to say to it. i read all of it.

Arenvir 98 · Mar 17, 2014 8:56 PM

Well, I try, to be certain. The main point there I was attempting to make is that they all have problems. To me, it seems that, sometimes, ISpyro is held on a bit of a pedestal, something I just don't feel is right. If you want to idolize someone, recognize their faults. To use my personal favorite as an example, LoSpyro is extremely polite, to the point where it rubs off as a little too nice, seeing as when he's not talking, he's tearing up apes left and right. This dissonance in the character's general combat ethos and their interpersonal reactions can be rather jarring if you've been spending the last five minutes beating the ever-loving wrath out of that last pack of apes, just before hitting some form of cutscene, in which none of that last fight is really hinted at. He may as well have been coming around to pick up some coffee. Either way, most of the emotional impact is probably going to hit after the fact, giving him a flimsy excuse. Skyro... There's nothing I can really say about him. As I stated before, he's really a blank slate.

Last edited by Arenvir 98 (Mar 17, 2014 8:57 PM)

Flapjacks · Mar 17, 2014 10:13 PM

I liked Insomniac Spyro's character for all of the reasons you listed. A personality like his is something not seen too often in the main protagonist of games. Usually the main protagonist of any game always says whatever seems best to say in a situation, doesn't say much at all, or is just... boring (LoS Spyro.)

Last edited by Flapjacks (Mar 17, 2014 10:14 PM)

Paranoia · Mar 18, 2014 5:50 AM

Arenvir 98 wrote:

The main point there I was attempting to make is that they all have problems. To me, it seems that, sometimes, ISpyro is held on a bit of a pedestal, something I just don't feel is right. If you want to idolize someone, recognize their faults.

Interesting posts. You say that the original games are unjustifiably held on a pedestal. I would normally be fine with this, but the example you gave about character development just doesn't really have much to do with the actual game itself. I don't see how you could say that Spyro's character is a flaw in the game; it's just personal preference on what type of character you happen to like. You're talking about a game here, not a person. Now if you had gripes about something more objective, like gameplay mechanics, then you could probably state a case saying why the game is praised so highly. Don't get me wrong, I'm fine if you like more story and character-driven experiences from a game; I'm just pointing out that simply because original Spyro's character doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean that it is a fault in the game. I personally enjoy the light-hearted nature of the first 3 Spyro games. They didn't take themselves too seriously, and the gameplay was simplistic, yet had enough variety to be enjoyable. And even though I was in the target demographic for LoS when it came out, I didn't feel attached to the characters or story at all. Not to mention the combat felt a bit unrefined and tedious to me.

Arenvir 98 wrote:

his dissonance in the character's general combat ethos and their interpersonal reactions can be rather jarring if you've been spending the last five minutes beating the ever-loving wrath out of that last pack of apes, just before hitting some form of cutscene, in which none of that last fight is really hinted at.

I've noticed this seems to be a problem with a lot of games as they become more story driven. In a game, you want to be able to do cool and crazy things that wouldn't be possible in real life, but at the same time, developers try and create a realistic and engaging story, when what the character is actually doing is far from realistic. A good example I can think of off the top of my head is the Uncharted series. Drake is presented as a happy-go-lucky guy with a sense of humor, yet shoots and kills thousands of people between cutscenes. I generally enjoy a story in games if it's either believable (to a certain extent within the universe) or acknowledges that it's not, and is okay with its 'craziness'. I really liked The Last of Us because the story and gameplay seemed in sync with each other. Without getting into any spoilers, after all the killing you've done in that game, it eventually makes you question the morality of it all, through the story itself.

Well that went off on a tangent, didn't it. haha.

Back to Spyro--to me, a little purple dragon just didn't seem to be suited for the 'epic' storyline that they tried to pull off with LoS. But again, that's all down to preference, nostalgia, etc, etc, etc, which I guess was the whole point of this thread, huh? sheep

Oh and I can't speak for Skylanders at all because I've never played it. Just doesn't interest me.

Last edited by Paranoia (Mar 18, 2014 5:53 AM)

36IStillLikeSpyro36 · Mar 18, 2014 6:28 AM

Paranoia wrote:

developers try and create a realistic and engaging story, when what the character is actually doing is far from realistic.

^ (thisisforyoulatias)

also, i think people think well of the original Spyro *games*, not Spyro himself. though i have to say i don't have any complaints about his personality anyway, the faults are what make the dialogue more interesting. that's going into opinions though so no use arguing it.

Last edited by 36IStillLikeSpyro36 (Mar 18, 2014 6:33 AM)

Arenvir 98 · Mar 18, 2014 8:41 PM

Paranoia wrote:

Arenvir 98 wrote:
The main point there I was attempting to make is that they all have problems. To me, it seems that, sometimes, ISpyro is held on a bit of a pedestal, something I just don't feel is right. If you want to idolize someone, recognize their faults.
Interesting posts. You say that the original games are unjustifiably held on a pedestal. I would normally be fine with this, but the example you gave about character development just doesn't really have much to do with the actual game itself. I don't see how you could say that Spyro's character is a flaw in the game; it's just personal preference on what type of character you happen to like. You're talking about a game here, not a person. Now if you had gripes about something more objective, like gameplay mechanics, then you could probably state a case saying why the game is praised so highly. Don't get me wrong, I'm fine if you like more story and character-driven experiences from a game; I'm just pointing out that simply because original Spyro's character doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean that it is a fault in the game. I personally enjoy the light-hearted nature of the first 3 Spyro games. They didn't take themselves too seriously, and the gameplay was simplistic, yet had enough variety to be enjoyable. And even though I was in the target demographic for LoS when it came out, I didn't feel attached to the characters or story at all. Not to mention the combat felt a bit unrefined and tedious to me.

I actually was not referring to the games themselves. As games, LoS is beat out easily by the original series, especially when it comes to how it plays as a game. The first three games are held on a pedestal for a very good reason, and I don't wish to detract from that. What I was referencing was primarily the tendency to immediately assume superiority in every possible aspect as being part of the original games. The only place where the original spyro games were lacking were in meaningful story structure and character development, which, to note, LoS only did slightly better. Otherwise, you're correct in your statements. Original spyro got the most essential part of the game, the actual play experience, right. The plot, while centrally an excuse plot system, was also relegated to just the right position- a mere motivation and a decent backdrop for the events occurring where there was a reason for Spyro to be there. LoS, on the other hand, handles that bit in a mediocre manner. The ambitious storyline had some potential- which, in my opinion, could have used more time to really flesh out- but ultimately, the gameplay was mediocre for the genre. Also, a normal way to compensate for a lack in interesting events ingame is to pile on combat sequences or dialogue, and it sadly shows in LoS. At least we have a somewhat decent canon ship to sail on, now...

All in all, my posts were focusing entirely on the characters, and I should have differentiated the statements in a clearer manner so as to make the point I attempted to make just above more obvious.

Last edited by Arenvir 98 (Mar 19, 2014 11:32 PM)

#1 Mar 10, 2014 9:06 PM

The reboots and their effects on the fandom

#2 Mar 10, 2014 9:10 PM

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#3 Mar 10, 2014 10:12 PM

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#4 Mar 10, 2014 10:22 PM

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#5 Mar 10, 2014 11:00 PM

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#6 Mar 11, 2014 3:20 AM

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#7 Mar 16, 2014 11:06 AM

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#8 Mar 17, 2014 7:42 AM

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#9 Mar 17, 2014 8:56 PM

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#10 Mar 17, 2014 10:13 PM

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#11 Mar 18, 2014 5:50 AM

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#12 Mar 18, 2014 6:28 AM

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#13 Mar 18, 2014 8:41 PM

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